Greg Detre
23/1/01
standing problem of suffering
escape from our own �
how does Appollonian help with suffering?
helps you access the Dionysian
disagree with Denham � dreams + illusinos, escape into dream world. not escaping from self. able to contemplate in an illusory world of beauty + order + happiness
Greek gods aren't ethically good, don�t� represent a moral framework, but it still provides a way to deal with suffering, at least they�re happy + joyfully capricious, they are beautiful through their freedom of suffering
Appollonian = consolation of dream not intoxication
Attic tragedy embodies both
Socratism � how does it differ
also represents a response to suffering
will to truth � order � meaning + rationale for the suffering
no god as a consolation
suffering as part of an ultimately good order � cf Platonism for the people
for Christ: suffering <- God � The Fall, deserved punishment, Leibniz silver lining, free will + humans as cause of own suffering
BT � proclaims rebirth of German through Wagner tragic, end of Socratism (changes mind), returning to need for mythology
corroded its own basis
Stoics as Socratics � inexorable harmonious inevitabel unfolding of the worldorder, reconcile our own negligibility
= similarly poisonous moral rationale
GM24 � unbelievers, counter-idealists, faith
Kant + Schopenhauer - brought Socratism to an end
undermine faith in 1 true world as opposed to materialism
world as masked and mediated through perception, undermines science
perspecitivsm prototype vs these scientists counter-Idealists
�I didn't need this hypothesis�
optimistic when writing the BT
self-abandonment = new form of authority
open up new mythology to animate art
just as Attic tragedy is undelain by mythology
musical Dionysian expression, Wagner as origin
self-criticism: Schopeanhauerianism + Wagnerism
stays more Schopenhauerian than he admits
but instead we each have to create our own rather than adopt a pre-packaged one
still thinks it will be music/poetry
identifies self with Dionysus
Schopenhauer: music unmediated reality, not emotions
received view is that Greeks from mythos � logos
whereas Nietzsche sees the Socratism as arising out of this
will to truth as motivated by search for meaning in suffering
will to art
suspicious of art�s pre-packaged mythology
�has no doubt of the value of the artist, but art-spectator may be a bit sheepy
art isn't homogenous � has different motivations
always shaping the world to our will
setting ourselves against reality
but some art is memetic
form of assertion + will
heroes striving Dionysians for the entertainment of the gods???
heroes as important, depictions of a play of forces
masked Dionysian figures
spectator vs artist
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chorus
breakdown of tragedy as informing � modern age
cheerfulness
can be positive
can be complacent
able to forgive
live your life forward
German journalist
heroes
Chequers
consolations allowed
Schopenhauer = will � to life???